078 - The future of SEO and content strategy in an AI-driven world, with Clemens Rychlik (COO @ Bourbon)

Explore the power of AI in streamlining content creation and productivity in our latest podcast episode. We're joined by Clemens Rychlik from Bourbon, where he serves as COO, and the man behind the Barcinno newsletter, diving into how AI, including ChatGPT, is reshaping tasks like proofreading and SEO optimization. Clemens shares his insights on using AI for authoritative content, while we discuss balancing client projects with our own. This episode is a must-listen for anyone using AI tools or interested in their potential.

We delve into how AI aids in language-related tasks such as transcription, translation, and grammar checking, highlighting efficiency boosts from tools like Otter, DeepL, and Grammarly. Àlex also shares how AI has revolutionized his Excel workflows and other day to day tasks, emphasizing the importance of human expertise in refining AI outputs and maintaining a brand's voice.

We conclude by examining AI's impact on SEO and content strategies, noting its quirks and the importance of accuracy in the digital realm. The episode also covers our hands-on experience with an internal prompt library, setting the stage for a future where AI and human creativity merge to produce impactful content as Marspace approaches its ten-year milestone.

We don't know if these show notes, generated 95% by an AI, would be seen as great in the eyes of Google, but what we know for sure is that we have the best audience in the world. Thanks a tonne for listening to our show!

By the way, we're celebrating 10 years in a few weeks. Make sure to send us questions for a special 10-years Q&A episode with the founders of MarsBased. Send them at hola@marsbased.com!

Transcript

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 0:00

Hello everybody, welcome to Life on Mars. I'm Alex, the founder of MarsBased, and in today's episode we have of the Barcinno famous newsletter, and also from Bourbon, a digital agency doing marketing content, seo and other needs in this realm, based in Barcelona, but they also innovating in many aspects. We have been collaborating with both parts and in today's episode we discuss AI, of course, but AI not generically speaking, the AI that is going to kill us, but how AI will incrementally make us more productive. In this case, we discuss content. We discuss the effects on SEO, on ranking and positioning, on reputation. They are an expert on all of these categories with Bourbon, and Clemens offers pretty insightful things about content generation, the authority that you can create out of the stuff that you produce, and how you are able to pass down that SEO juice, that expertise, that accumulated authority throughout the years, to the new content that they will be generating as an agency, as a thought leader in the industry.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 1:12

And for today's question of the day, we want to hear what are you using AI for? Give us a concrete example, specific example, something that you do every day, not something you did just once, something that is instrumental to what you do, like its data transformation? Is it preparing text? Is it a proofreading? Is it content generation? Is it image enhancement? What are you using AI for and what? Even if it's like really, really small use case, it's going to be very helpful.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 1:42

Just feel free to share it with the community, with us, in the comments down below, or send us on social media or via email. We'll be sharing. Also, send us questions. We want to record a special 10 anniversary of Marspace coming up next month, actually in a matter of weeks probably. This episode is going to be a landing on the first week of February, the second week of February at most, and on the first week of March we turn 10, so feel free to send us any questions at alexandmarspacecom, olaandmarspacecom or our social profiles, which we're going to link in the podcast description and, without further ado, we'll jump right into this episode. Awesome, let's do it Well. Welcome to the show, clemens. Welcome to the live on Mars. How are you doing?

Clemens Rychlik: 2:30

Thank you.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 2:30

Alex really appreciate it. I'm good looking forward to this episode. As I mentioned, I'm not nervous, but I'm concerned that as we speak, we might be releasing the new Marspace website and you know how these processes are like. They can be pretty troublesome and I know I should be there, but you know the times have gone inside it and I don't know if you've been to any similar experience in the past.

Clemens Rychlik: 2:57

I know. I mean we work a lot on SEO projects, right? So this happened before and I know you just moved houses. So I think the website new website launches stuff. It's almost like a house. Like you know, it always takes way longer than you think, so hopefully you will hit the timeline today.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 3:13

I would say our website has taken way longer. We started designing it almost three years ago I want to say two, but I realized it's almost three because it was during the pandemic 2020, and then we kind of like put it off for a year because we were too busy, said like let's recover this project in 2021, and then you know they say the shoemaker's children go barefoot right. Exactly Always too busy. Is that always? Is that something that happens to you at Bourbon as well? That you're too busy with client projects, that you can't work on your own stuff because of Marspace and Tower Daily pain, basically.

Clemens Rychlik: 3:48

Yeah, I think it's like the typical thing, right? You know you always focus on clients first, right, so they take priority, and so, by essence, you know you almost never have time, and then when you have time, it's usually whole day, season or something, and then you have a project as well.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 4:01

So I totally get what you mean, I wanted to start asking by you know the state of the art of AI, what you guys are using and whatnot, because it seems that it's a recurring thing on the all the interviews that happen. This podcast and it's always comes in the middle of the conversation and we never dive deep into it. And I think it's quite related to SEO, to PR, like the world that we're both immersed in, and so how are you using it on a day-to-day basis? What tools are you using? What would you recommend? What not?

Clemens Rychlik: 4:34

Yeah, cool Now for us. We've been obviously and I will probably talk about the different stages of how we went to AI before but obviously we all had AI tools before, especially in content side. I mean, we've been all using them. So I mean, on that sense, it's not really a new trend. I mean, everybody probably used like Grammarly, clearscore, but this type of thing, if you like, even in content space, I think even Gmail has like for I think several years they had this kind of like next-world predictor when you were typing emails and stuff. Sometimes it gives you like the next phrase. So I mean these things existed.

Clemens Rychlik: 5:03

I think just now, with ChatchGDP and this other tool, it just makes it sound like bigger and like scarier or whatever. So far as we've been experimenting the whole year with different tools, I mean we have to. We are kind of like you know, if we talk it's a generative AI, that kind of really affects us probably the most. So we've been playing around with different tools right now mostly with ChatchGDP, just because it still seems to be the strongest one, at least for what we needed for. So this is kind of like our bread and butter, and then behind that we still have the other tools that we use, you know, to support our content writing and the processes, but really, with ChatchGDP, I think investing in, you know, it's like a paid version. That's what we found really useful because it allows you to really, if you use it on a regular basis for content production, review this type of things. It makes it much easier to again cut down a lot on the time that you need to use it, for just because you can pre-write prompts, you can already include all the context that you needed to know, so you just need to have type the same shit again for like a 10-time or so, you know. So I think that's like a big, big life saver, especially for us, since we have different clients as well. You know we wear different hats, so one day we are I don't know writing for a FinTech space and next day we maybe write for, like a health tech company. So this allows us to always keep overview.

Clemens Rychlik: 6:20

But I think, yeah, with ChatchGDP it's really. It allows you to kind of like do a bit of everything Really and I mean it's nothing used. I don't want to go too much into depth on what people know, but we've been experimenting with other things as well. I mean you mentioned the websites. I know Scott has been using it to build like a landing page pretty easily in, you know, question of not even days, you know.

Clemens Rychlik: 6:40

So I think, as long as you need it for something that doesn't need to be completely refined by the AI, you have like, basically, tools out there for everything. It's just, like, you know, a matter of like, would you personally need the most and then just like testing it? But it's literally like something out there for everything you can imagine right now, even if I think for podcast recordings are different tools that apparently help you to cut down and clip it. So they are not AI companies. I kind of like adding AI features as well. So I mean, we've talked about Zoom before. You know, when we try to record a meeting, they everybody keeps adding shit and we don't even know, like what's even possible or how it works. But you know everybody can say they are like an AI company.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 7:17

Now right, Exactly, and for me it's. It's crazy how people are hyper regulating or over regulating this or doing you know this kind of super futuristic and this impending doom talks that that AI will destroy as well and whatnot. And I think, like the revolution of AI for me, is the small things in the tools that we already use, right? So these transcriptor and Zoom Grammarly embedded in Gmail or Google Calendar telling you that, oh, you're scheduling a meeting with this person. He or she is much more likely to accept this invitation if it's only 30 minutes long, it's in the morning, or he has been canceling the last weeks. He has been postponing a lot of meetings just because maybe he's sick or something. You know, this kind of smart assistance, this digest of information to make our life easier.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 8:09

For me, this is a revolution of AI, not a fucking AGI that's going to destroy as well, not Boston Dynamics, robots and stuff like that, which is cool. It's cool. It just maybe brings more people to the pool, to the talent pool, and just makes the pipe eager. But, like, the revolution is this small test savers, this automation, this destruction of low, super low value test that we had to do manually. And for me it's been like, you know, hiring an executive or personal assistant, right, having 20 bucks a month for for chat to be the plus, it's it's the cheapest bar game of all time, because I've been using it in the last 24 hours. Let's talk about the last 24 hours would have you used to, but I have created a fake logo for potential new company on a company presentation for because tomorrow we have the company get together at Mars place and I'm introducing a theoretical meeting with another company. I'm like I'm going to be talking about Pluto based you know, a fictional company based off Mars based and so I created in 10 minutes I created a logo. It looks fucking good and I didn't have to sign up for fiber and stuff. But also you know the content of our new website that's being launched.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 9:18

I translated it pretty much everything using using chat gpd, not Google translate, just because it's fucking faster and all the things. I use it all the time. I use it to bounce off some ideas I might have and I'm like, oh, this could be great, but maybe I'll ask chat gpd to give me counter arguments and see why is this probably not a good idea, give me all the other visions people might have about this, and it's very good at that. So, as a good friend describes it, it's like an intern with infinite time, and it's really true. What have you used it for in the last 24 hours yourself?

Clemens Rychlik: 9:53

Yeah, I think it's a great example. So for me and again, it's funny that some of these tools have been around before, but you know, since AI kind of like explore with chat gp, we just didn't talk about it as much. But for example, what we use a lot is auto for transcriptions, like for English content, like for podcasting and stuff you could it's really really good or interviews. It's like an AI transcription software works really really well. We actually have a lot of clients who, instead of translating content themselves, for many years have already been using deep L is kind of an open source translation software for basically any language. And then they kind of it's funny because then they ask us to review the machine translation. So we almost call like it's a humanization of the machine translation, because sometimes you get random stuff. So I've used that before as well this week, actually yesterday and then obviously like Grammarly, google may like this type of things are always on. But I think maybe the most interesting is within chat gp. Like you said, it's kind of like this new users that you find for this like kind of like assistant, and it's exactly what you say. Just like Every week you seem to find some new application where you can really remove a super boring task and assign it to your assistant. You know. So my favorite one was like just think it was last week, because I work a lot of like with data and stuff. You know when you do like Keyboard research and then you want to also analyze existing blog posts and how they perform and all these things. You have different data points and you know I'm kind of like spreadsheet and axle Nerd, but I'm not like a super programmer that knows every little. You know formula that exists in the tool, you know. So before maybe I spent two hours researching Okay, how do I make this cell do what I actually want? But you actually first understand how the formula works and then be able to apply it yourself, so that it takes, like you know. So I was trial and to figure it out, and now I generally just like go to chat you to Pia, tell I have this column, I have this Road, this is what you can find here. I want you to do this right me, the exact formula for what I need, right here, and that you can almost Copy and paste that and instead of spending two hours researching, that, you get it in literally, like you know a few seconds and Maybe you don't have the complete learning process behind it, but if you then review the formula or still get it how it works, you can use it next time. So I think that's like a really, really great one. It's.

Clemens Rychlik: 12:02

We do a lot of content.

Clemens Rychlik: 12:03

A lot of times we, when we prepare briefs for for new content and articles, a big Actually I would say you're maybe like 70% sometimes of the biggest value comes from the research worker with you, and Part of it is obviously manually.

Clemens Rychlik: 12:16

Part of that can be now automated and part of it can come to like expert interviews and stuff, I think. But sometimes you end up with so many Input data points that it takes you quite a while to process all of that yourself and put it in a structured way. So we have like different sections of an article that have like a logical flow, and I found it incredibly useful to just like put everything that you've collected into something like a chat to DP and Give you like some structured idea or on Like you know how to put together this, this data, into like clusters, into topic and like paragraph Overviews, and then there's like a great starting point. You know Like obviously you need to refine it. Sometimes there's some random things coming out of that and you need to tweak it with your experience. I think that's normal, but it does help you so much time because I mean, if it allows you to do stuff faster or better, like you're gonna use it right.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 13:07

Well, exactly, and that's one of my favorite use cases is the XL one. Exactly, I upload the screenshot of my File. Sometimes I'll first get the data and and then I tell it oh, I want to do this. How do I do it? Because I know next to nothing when it comes to Excel. I'm just like that Horrible when it comes to data manipulation using Excel and and spreadsheet, and it just works like a charm, pretty much like a hundred percent of the Times. The only thing is you, you touch a point, you you hovered on a point.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 13:37

I wanted to collect, the deep, dive a little bit more into it, which is the, the expertise you need to review it. Right, a lot of people are not conscious about that and, and the thing is, for me it's kind of like outsourcing in which if you don't have a little bit of the knowledge of that field, of that realm, then you you will not get the best results because you will basically accept any output it gives to you as valid. And we know of the hallucinations of touchy-pity, we know of the hallucinations of artificial intelligence, how sometimes it just makes up stuff just because it's a conversation, conversational, llm, it's not a specific sectorial thing, this one and we're using it for very specific things when it's a generalist. But the thing is, when, for instance, the translation of our previous website, when we learned our previous website, 2015, I manually translated all the content. Granted, it wasn't too much content, right, but this one we have, I mean, we didn't translate the blog. But without the blog, we have about like 80 pages or something like that. I wasn't gonna go a hundred percent manual on this, and so I used 24 to translate it. And but even with that, even if it's really good, sometimes it's too good and tries to be like it doesn't have your tone, it doesn't have your voice.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 14:56

It maybe translates stuff that in your context that normally is not translated. If we are talking about, you know, maybe the, the downtime of a server, we don't translate downtime to Spanish, like when talking Spanish we talk about downtime, we don't talk about the Impaul de Caida or something like that. I don't know, I wouldn't even know a word for that. Or throughput, or there's some certain things are part the jargon that we don't translate, and yet that GPD or the equivalents would translate them right, but in the context of our website doesn't really make sense. So. So that's why you got to review every output it gives you, as if it were an intern, as if they were an agency that you were outsourcing to right, because otherwise you will be given these kind of maybe not fictional but just not a hundred percent ready for production outputs that you need to review otherwise. Yeah, it is totally done by AI, but if you could tweak it a little bit, I don't know, I don't know how you can tell.

Clemens Rychlik: 15:56

Yeah, I think I mean. You touch on so many points. I'm trying to structure my thoughts on this.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 16:01

Welcome to the show. It's like, it's kind of like that for an hour. No, it's great.

Clemens Rychlik: 16:06

I mean I have a lot of thoughts on that. I would say, maybe first of all, because you touch on a really great point which is kind of like a lot of people are not aware Exactly even like, where this data comes from, and we can't, because it's kind of like a black box Right. You put something in and you get something out and it doesn't really explain like how did it? You know, what decision did it take, what did it look at to come to this conclusion of, for example, in your case, that translation Right, you just get the result and that's it. So I think what's important to keep in mind is also, especially in our cases I mean, we are deep in the tech sector on both sides. I think it's important to remember that we are actually like, I mean, we're not like maybe, the super geniuses of like technology I, but I think we're very much at the forefront, like actually using it on a day-to-day basis. Now I would probably say like most of the people still have like literally no idea about AI still and they don't know like all the Details behind it. I was just this weekend there's a really good exhibition in the César Bay in Barcelona, the museum, about AI and it really explains a lot of the stuff, which I think is great, because we need that. We need people to actually know what it is good at, like how it I mean not to deal us how it works, but at least them general idea and Especially then, like what it means for you in using it in a day today, because, like you said, you want to make sure you review this stuff that comes out of it, especially if you want to Create things that are really important to you.

Clemens Rychlik: 17:29

You know there will be some things. You know, if you use it personally to maybe draft your you know grocery shopping list, like you don't care, it makes like a small mistake or there, you know, almost it puts like a super expensive item on the list that you don't want to buy. But if you use it for Anything that's really important, like a website or like I don't know client emails and this type of things, you really really, really need to double Check it. I mean, translation is the best example. You always get like this random, you know, like false friends, a lot of things that can go wrong. You definitely always want to have somebody who at least double checks that type of thing. But even here we talked about this before. I mean it's not something completely new. I mean you had the best translators, were using kind of like some sort of AI Translation software before for a long long time, where I think actually that still probably works way better than whatever we think about right now, because it allows you to build like a translation library, right, so you could kind of tell it okay for this type of word or phrasing, please always use this, and the next time you just does it automatically. So I think, as AI gets better and I'm sure it will be more specialized tool for translation, as it will be for other things, I think this will make it really cool because then you don't have to always give the same, always make the same edit that you do to, you know, to not translate downtime, for example, right, and it's gonna make it much easier because right now you can do it. I mean, you could probably create some like prompt library or some context that already gives it always that they put on like Don't translate these words or translate this with, always in this case. But again, it's just kind of like still not as Automated as it could be, which I think ultimately the idea of AI is that it's gonna be as Straightforward and easy as it should be. So you know, just going back, definitely always, always, you need to double-check things.

Clemens Rychlik: 19:11

We like, the very first day I experimented for the content writing. You know, obviously we're not using it to write content for clients, but personally we were experimenting with it to know how good or bad it can be, and especially for very long form corner. That's kind of like based on something new. I mean it was terrible. I mean you, you up, for example, we gave you the test to write, kind of your journalistic article. It should include like quotes and stuff to make it like more engaging and more Attributive. And then, okay, first read, you get the result you like. Okay, I'm kind of reads more as well. You know it's structured, the grammar is proper, you know what usage is. Okay, there's some quotes in it. You say, okay, it's actually not too bad. And then you look at the quote. You say, hmm, I don't know what this person is.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 19:53

Let's check it up on Internet it doesn't exist person doesn't exist.

Clemens Rychlik: 19:57

Okay, this quote has never been said. And then you're kind of like past the AI and it's almost like a very Bad sneaky. You know, student, that when you ask it, like okay, this quote doesn't exist, I just oh, yeah, okay, actually I'm like an AI. I can't produce new quotes and stuff, you know, but you should always review it. So it's kind of like, come on it. Actually, even you ask a question and then it admits that there's certain things that it didn't tell you until you have specifically Ask it about something. So I think it's super, super dangerous if you leave any type of AI work on check, especially going back to to what I mentioned in this exhibition, the museum. They gave great examples of how, you know, we have to keep in mind that AI is trained with data points and a lot of our data points that has been used to train AI Are biased, depending on whoever was the researcher who was working on it. So, by definition, a lot of the AI production is gonna be Based on this bias, which is also terrible, because we don't want to come and reinforce, you know, certain Stereotypes and discrimination that already exist in the world, because, you know, actually we would like to do the opposite, like you know. Yeah, you say I to make it better. So I think there's like so many Questions around that they just make it, I think, for me obvious anything with AI you need to check it. I think that's like basic one-on-one that I think I just hope that everybody who listens to this episode and beyond To realize is that because this is like we do, we just care, we release check, like work on check.

Clemens Rychlik: 21:19

And I find it funny what you said. If you can tell the style and stuff of AI, like, for example, even in content writing I spoke with some even clients and our people in the content industry does certain things where you can tell this has been written by AI it seems to have like a general, like default style. It is this kind of like friendly, corporate type of writing. So even sometimes, if people use it for email, you can tell like this guy is now using AI to write his email or this social media post was written with like an AI. Sometimes it even uses exactly the same phrases like a lot of social posts a lot of times. So, like you know, we have great or super exciting news and this is like almost always the opener for any like news you want to announce. So it's really funny. It's like this default sign everything's going to sound the same.

Clemens Rychlik: 22:03

But then again, you know, as you get smarter with how it works, you can give it more context. Right, you could say, I don't know, write your social media post in the style of Elon Musk. If you, for example, want your you know to be very polarizing and, you know, offend a lot of people, that could be like a great way to go about. But you can pick different styles depending on who you like. But I think still that even though you can do that, you lose kind of like the human touch. You know you want to make sure that whatever you write sounds like you, because otherwise, I mean, what's the point? You know, like I think it would be shame if everything else ends up sounding the same or like who are three general styles? You know we kind of boring for everyone.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 22:39

Yeah, I tried it for the block. I wrote a couple of blog posts and I let people know this was written with AI. We were just testing, right, and the funny thing is like we don't have like, let's get a little bit technical, let's nerd out a little bit here. So there's not yet a specification in HTML to give the authorship to an AI or, putting another way, we got the author tag for HTML right, which is used for, you know, to quote, it's used to give the reference to the original author of the of an article and whatnot. But I don't think it's prepared. You can't. You could write open AI and that's it and be done with it, but I think we need to come up with something better. I'm even suggesting something in my I think I wrote it on my personal blog, but I will I'll give it more diffusion, maybe that that we need to come up with something like I'm proposing a seed tag right when you can say like, oh, these blog posts was written with AI, with this original blog posts in mind, or with this idea in mind, or with this author in mind, right, because the content is not his or hers, but it's a big inspiration. Such a big inspiration, maybe I have used, I have ingested his or her content into a tool, and then I have come up with this article that I have rewritten myself. To put it another way, like because you said it, it just comes with something that sounds too generic and maybe too polite and too nice, right, and? And there's one small nuance to it, to what the things that we do Like? For instance, we're not native in English and our blog is in English, so sometimes I'm using idioms that are maybe not 100% correct, or some expressions are shouldn't be there, or phrases are exceedingly long, or I wanna use, maybe, words that are too complex for the context, just because I'm not native, right, and that's my way of writing, and AI is just not getting there. And I've trained an AI with our blog post style and still it just comes up with something too fluffy, right, it's too, it's too optimized for marketing most of the times, right? And so I'm reading it and I'm like I will not publish it because 100% people will know this is generated with AI. And then I end up almost redoing it, which is part of what you're doing the fact checking, right, or the style checking it's. I'm not saying I'm rewriting 100% of the blog post. I would say I'm rewriting 50, just because I'm also pretty picky about things and I've got my own style, I just wanna add some more edgy conclusions. I wanna be more blunt in some opinion that that, you know, an AI is not capable of, or shouldn't be doing that. And the other thing is the fact checking.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 25:31

As you mentioned, I got a funny story here. You know, I run these other technological podcasts. It's called Focaterra is in Catalan, and we did the live, sort of a live demo of of chat GPD when it almost one year ago maybe, maybe it was March, something like that I was asking it about Focaterra, the podcast itself. I said, oh yeah, totally, focaterra is this popular radio program on Catalunya Radio and hosted by these super famous journalists. I'm like no, so you know, if you don't know it. It's like, oh okay, nice. I said no, I'm pretty sure it's not a radio program. I mean it's a podcast and, as you said, it's kind of like a sneaky studio. They said, oh yeah, sorry, for I might just look it up somewhere else. I might have hallucinated, or something like that. It's actually a podcast, technological podcast, talking about the problems of Catalan society and a class war and blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, no, not again, can you. And then I was refining the prompt and the funny thing and here's the funny thing that you mentioned about the quotes right, I said can you provide links to relevant articles and citations where needed? I said yeah, I can totally do that. So it goes again.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 26:41

Fourth iteration of total, somewhat wrong explanation of Focaterra and content and the host and whatnot. And then it's sites, websites that are actually made up, but the funny thing is the structure of the links. So HTTPS, you know all the slash, slash, slash, slash, the. If you went to compare it didn't link to anywhere, but you could find other links on the website following the same exact structure. Just it was something missing. There was something made up there, like my name, for instance, or Focaterra Like racuorg. So this Catalan radio slash podcast, slash morning, slash Focaterra, didn't exist, but all of the other podcasts of Raku, they followed this URL structure. That was very interesting to me Because it totally went to the website, it crawled, it learned about these URLs and it made it up. You know, following this instructor, it was so funny. But then again you gotta check it because otherwise you will look like the total automation or LinkedIn automation jerks who are like hello first name. Congratulations to your accomplishment at company name. You know it will look like that.

Clemens Rychlik: 27:56

Totally.

Clemens Rychlik: 27:57

But then again that brings me back to like you know how scary it is if we leave our especially the published work on check, because imagine that I mean maybe even somebody you know publishes something, maybe in good faith, and they just write something with AI.

Clemens Rychlik: 28:11

So it's like a post about Focaterra or something. And then accidentally the AI described your podcast as maybe something I don't know like a super extremist, I don't know political website or something. And then this goes out on internet and then poof, they're like a lot of like you know, let's say, ai, maybe Twitter boards and stuff who keep reposting that. And then it's kind of like escalates. And then you know you wake up in the morning and suddenly you have like a lot of DMs in your account like saying, like Alex, like what the hell are you doing? Or something you know. So it's like really scary how you know. We know how social media, how fast it can sometimes make things go viral, even if the foundational story of it is wrong, but by the time people realize that the damage has been done. So I think it gives us a lot of responsibility to check our work, because there's gonna be more false information if we leave it unchecked, which is really scary.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 29:02

That's a good segue for my next question, which was gonna be okay. We've been working for years, for decades, on SEO. Right, we've optimized and people see, you know not only the content but also the reputation, like there's stuff like Glassdoor, then you can work on the reputation you have online and whatnot. But then you ask it, you ask about your company to an LLM and it comes up with something that you're maybe not in control of. And we're starting to hear this. I don't even know the term, what it is, but if SEO is search engine optimization and we got like also the App Store optimization, what is the AI snippet optimization? Is that even a thing? That's something that you guys are working on already.

Clemens Rychlik: 29:48

It's something that we're starting to look at very seriously. It's something we wanna roll out next year. The reality is it is very, very new. So you know, typically I mean first of all historically I mean something related to that is the claim of, obviously, that SEO is that which is, like I think, happening for the 10th time now. So I mean SEO must be some sort of a zombie, because somehow it always comes back and is alive again. You know, there was like voice search and all those things before, and every time people think, okay, now this is gonna be end.

Clemens Rychlik: 30:18

I think certainly now, with what you mentioned, it changes a person that you're searching will be done differently and you want to make sure you can optimize for that as well. The reality is we have a lot of smart marketers who, whenever these changes happen, they run a lot of experiments and try to, kind of like, identify best practices. It will just take a bit of time until they have enough feedback and input from different experiments they run. So right now it's not completely clear, but I do think that in the end, especially the newer version of AI's, they are trained with more and more recent data. So my belief is that you just have to be understanding the side of things that when you work with ChachiDB or something and you ask it questions, it will be based on data that maybe were put in manually or from the internet.

Clemens Rychlik: 31:07

The one that you can influence the most is the one on the internet, right? So even if you think that more searches will be happening through this kind of conversational chats with AI boards or something similar, you will be aware that this is based on existing content. So SEO will still have relevance because if you rank at the very top, it's going to be more likely, I think, that an AI is going to scan through something that you have written and is going to use that as one of the foundational pieces of its own training to create whatever output it needs to create. So I think in that sense, the main idea of SEO is still relevant and the same. It's just a bit more indirect in how the result then appears in this kind of conversational search.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 31:53

It makes me think about the weight of the importance of an article or a website. As you mentioned, the foundation of SEO is going to be relevant still because, most likely, chachidb and all of these other open models are pulling data from Wikipedia and Google and Reddit. We know they will stop from Reddit, right, but at the same time, we know this is happening now but it might not happen in the next iteration. The first iteration of the data it's pulled from SEO stuff, let's put it this way. The second iteration of data is something that they have reworked with their own algorithm and we don't know what happens in this black box, right? So what you're saying essentially is that if we at least control the first part of the equation, we're in a good spot now, but we don't know what will happen in five years' time. Right, I mean kind of when Google had to the rebalance, to the algorithm. But how do you guys stay ahead of the curve? How do you train yourselves? How do you stay on top of news and tendencies?

Clemens Rychlik: 33:01

Yeah, I mean for us, first of all, this is a great question and obviously AI's advancing so far that it's really difficult to make, honestly, any sort of prediction whatsoever. That goes for like five years or more. But, like I said, I do think that if you follow the SEO practices and make sure the content that you want to rank for is at the top, this will help you rank in the or appear in the conversational searches as well. And the other thing is, if we think about like how, from like a brand perspective, I think you also have control there in a sense that if you establish proper like content, style guide and messaging playbooks that you use all across your board internally but it can also share with partners that you work with, like agencies, at least that helps you ensure, like, a consistent brand message. So the likelihood that, like a completely you know off description of your company or product or services comes in to play in the future is limited. But for us, this year has been very much about learning about AI, how to use these tools, because we realize pretty quickly that you know it's not going to replace marketers, but it's going to replace marketers that are not using AI, because I think it's pretty logical that anybody who uses this super virtual assistant in your day to day can be way more efficient with what you're doing right now. You know I can probably I can review more content, I can create more briefs. I can probably create more content also if I wanted to. So it is like definitely something that you need to use, but in the end it comes down to it's almost like a new tool, right? Maybe we call it AI, but it's almost like a tool. You have to learn how to use it in best possible way. So I mean we maybe we don't need all this like 10,000 prompt playbooks that are out there. I mean nobody's going to read all of them, but I think you do want to learn how you can do what you need AI for in the most efficient and best possible way.

Clemens Rychlik: 34:52

And so what we do is we work with different tools. Every month. We try to have like we have almost like a weekly call where we kind of digest of what we've been working with, things that we've learned. We build like an internal prompt library that we can share across the board just to kind of multiply the learning effects, and this has really helped us to, you know, find some really cool ways to save on time internally, and then also just like sharing any articles that we see and read. You know, we have like this weekly touch point where we really try to digest that Like we talk about not really anything related to like client work and stuff, but like really just like okay, what have we worked like we have expanded with this tool. This is our experience.

Clemens Rychlik: 35:27

It would be good for that. It could be bad for that, and then you just learn a lot faster, I think you know, because I mean, even with AI tools I think there's probably, like in the time this podcast was recorded, there are probably like 10,000 new AI tools out there, because everybody uses AI to build AI tools then as well, which is crazy. But I think you learn so much just by engaging and practicing with it. So it's almost like anything else in life. You just have to do it, you have to learn, see the experience, and then you pick up stuff and it's like even little things that sound like completely bizarre, but then you kind of just like trust them and test them out and see if it works. And then you see, okay, this is kind of like actually good, and then you just keep doing it. So I think one of the rate like one of the strangest one I've seen recently was some research that has been done that if you kind of use like an emotional pressure when chatting to an AI bot, it performs better.

Clemens Rychlik: 36:21

So if you, if in your prompt you tell it something like you know, if you're bossy- do this and that, and you know, not necessarily rude, but if you say something like, hey, okay, do this and this, so you put in your normal, you know prompt and contacts, and then maybe at the end you put something like, hey, you know, like this is really important for me, like my job is on the line for this, it tends to perform way better, like at least significantly better on certain tasks, than it would if you don't put it in. So it's kind of like strangely funny that this emotional pressure works for an AI, which I think is like totally bizarre somehow, like really strange, like it doesn't have emotions but it understands, maybe, your emotion and then tries to do a better job. So that's one. And another one that's also a bit strange is like because again, it's not really a human, but apparently if you tell it things like you know, okay, I want you to do this and that, but you know, do it in kind of like a step by step process, you know, take a deep breath and work through your process to get to the end result. Maybe review it once or twice yourself internally before you post, whatever your output is. That also tends to perform a bit better if you don't do that.

Clemens Rychlik: 37:25

So it's like this little things that we're still trying to learn that, I think, help us and I think to it, maybe even back if we think at how we use Google. You know, I mean, strangely there's still people who don't know. You know certain of the I don't know how to call like codes for Google that you can use. You know that put in things into like iPhone so it appears the exact same phrase, or like excluding certain words from appearing in your search. I think it's just little things that you know. Then make it much more, make the outputs much better for what you need it for, and I think that's like something that you can only learn by doing it. You know, like I don't think that by reading 10,000 prompt guidebooks you will remember five prompts out of that, so you just have to do it and learn it. That way, I think.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 38:07

It's funny because I'm following a lot of people on. I'm following fewer people now than one year ago on AI, just because they're all posting the same shit and it's too much shit and it's pretty irrelevant to what you do. It's impressive, right? It's like here's this new tool, every the Thread Boys, right, the AI Thread Boys, and every day there's something new. It's like I can't play with these. I can't play with a new tool every day because I have a real job, motherfucker. So, but they keep overloading you with information. And the funny thing is a lot of the they give you like 80% of, or 80% of what they give you is true and valuable, so to speak, but 20% is made up based on impressions. I'm going to give you an example.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 38:49

Remember the, let's say, the peak days of mid-journey right, when mid-journey was starting to become like really good and everybody was kind of like, oh, here's my guide to writing the correct prompts with this and these parameters and this order, and blah, blah, blah.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 39:04

You tweak it like this and you add like the camera style and whatnot, and then funny thing is a lot of these things made sense, but 20% of them were fake. Just because they thought they were working because they were getting good results, but they never occur to inspect whether taking them off would actually produce the same results. And some people are like, dude, I work at mid-journey or I work at here and this parameter doesn't actually do anything, but it made them look like more intelligent, right, more elaborate. And one of the things that I like to hear is, if you follow somebody else's steps 100% and blindly, you're just going to get there to the same exact place maybe, but you're not going to get the thinking outside of the box results. And I see a lot of people just thinking in this ABC modality and they're just following blindly what other people tell them and buying these prompt guides and whatnot.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 39:58

And they're not experimenting, they're losing these critical reasoning and this way of deep thinking right Ourself, so we're just following blindly, which is exactly the contrary to what should be done in these experimentation times. It takes me back to the beginnings of SEO, when there was black hat and whites hat, white hat SEO and some really questionable tactics right, but the good thing there is, like everybody was experimenting and something was good for 15 days or for 12 months, something like that, and it was completely. It was a complete mess, but it was funny. We're experimenting and nobody, like the regulation, was never catching up to the amount of experimentation. That's what, when you know market is not yet ripe, right, or it's just beginning to flourish, and I'm getting the same vibes, and now with AI, and I want to stay on top, but at the same time, now I got a real job. I'm not a student anymore, if you want. If you know what I mean.

Clemens Rychlik: 40:54

Yeah, I think. Yet definitely at the start we had all this hype that we realized we could do almost anything. And then we like, we tried to even figure out, like, what do we actually we do want to use it for? And then, like, some things were like fun, but then you know, after you for example, like with Dal, you know me joining maybe you experimented with it for, like you know one day, for like an hour or so, to create some funny image and that's it. Or maybe you wrote some I don't know some like song lyrics for like some random you know music that didn't make sense, just to see how it works.

Clemens Rychlik: 41:19

But I think once we get past it, it is like what you say this experimentation is key. And then it's funny because that again brings it back to what we said before it's key experimentation is important. But I think if you're not experimenting it for things that you have any expertise with to begin with, you can't really get what you said before, like having the knowledge of being able to actually review the result and saying whether that's good or not. Like if you take the mid-john example, I think it's great example of how I think again that it's not going to replace a person, because, yeah, you can use mid-john. I mean, I could use mid-john to create some images and digital art. But since I'm not a designer, I can look at all these problems to look at, like camera angles or lightning angles and color composition and stuff, but I'm not a designer, you know.

Clemens Rychlik: 42:08

So whatever is the artwork, I can say like okay, you have to meet, kind of looks good, or like this doesn't look good, but a designer will be able to, even if they don't know the problem, to just give it the information that it needs to, because they just think differently based on the experience. And then, especially important, they can actually review the results to say whether this has actually done anything useful or not. So, again, experimentation key. But if you're not an expert on the subject, like to what extent can you review the work? It's almost like as if I would hire, for example, you guys to do a web development project for me and then I try to review their homepage, but I'm not like a coder so I have like no idea. So, like, what's the value of my feedback? Besides, like telling you things about the appearance and stuff you know?

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 42:50

Yeah, that's a really good point. Back to the, so circling back to the mid-journey thing. I remember that at the beginning everybody was creating something like, oh, it's crazy, you know all of these spaceships and like fictional cities, and but then it got really specific and I couldn't progress anymore because, for instance, some people are like, oh, create this scene of whatever you know, a dinner at the table, but in the style of Wes Anderson, lightning, from this angle camera, this model. And because I don't have the knowledge of this realm I don't know jack shit about cinema, I don't know jack shit about lightning, I couldn't fine tune right. So let's say, everybody will become a generalist in AI, but the people who have the know-how, the knowledge, the sectorial knowledge, they will still be able to be 10 steps ahead just because they still have this knowledge of camera models, right, and the focus and the lens, distance and whatnot. I don't. So I will not be able to fine tune my creations with regards to that right. Same happens with coding. I'm not going to get too technical here, but happens more or less the same with Copilot.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 44:05

I was going to ask you the next thing about kind of like to wrap it up about the business, the future of your business, because AI has given us a like, a change of scenarios and more space. You know, we've always been a boutique company, specialized. We do very few things. We do them really well At the same time. Right now, people are catching up with the expertise just because AI has elevated people, right, and we have not yet found a way to elevate ourselves. Or we are in this time where people can get like pretty good codes with Copilot, for instance, right, and clients might just want to pay less to these people.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 44:48

Put it another way, remember the John so the geez, the Jeff Bezos famous quote of focusing on the things that don't change, not on the things that change. People will want to have a broader selection, cheaper and faster delivery over time, not the other way around, right? So for me as an agency, I'm thinking, if I'm following this reasoning, people will want more space to do, more technologies, provide the projects in less time for less money, which is 100% contrary to our philosophy. But what if we are? We have to adapt to the zeitgeist, right? And if we don't do, it will be the demise of our company. Are you finding yourselves also in that position, or how are you seeing the feature of your marketing PR content services feature.

Clemens Rychlik: 45:40

Yeah, I think it's an excellent question and something that I remember. When we discussed it at the start of the year it was like less clear for both of us like what it may actually mean. But then you try to speak with people, educate yourself and you get a better idea. I think you touched a good point on. People know these tools are out there, so they're gonna start using them and they're gonna see how useful they are or how useful they are not. They may be pretty useless as well in some things. So I think they will realize, regardless of the quality or the results they may get with, that there is a very affordable, cheap way to do something at scale here, which obviously, if you put it in comparison to a seasoned agency, has a completely different proposition of what it tries to do. So you have those two options out there. I think as a business, you can't completely ignore that. I think you have to understand that this is out there and people gonna be start using that. Maybe they're gonna be certain things of the business that you're doing right now. That can be that maybe they will internalize or maybe they're gonna assign to somebody else, or that you have to rethink how you even maybe budget or invoice them yourself, because I do think that over the long term there are efficiency gains here to be made in certain tasks, in almost anything I think we can imagine, and over time I do think the reality is gonna be that some of that will be passed on eventually to the client. Because if, for example, even if you have two agencies that are equal, one doesn't use AI and one does, maybe even the one that uses AI can perhaps charge a bit less but have a higher profit margin by actually using AI. So there's gonna be a lot of questions. But again, each function that exists in the job world is quite, quite different and AI is better or worse in each of them.

Clemens Rychlik: 47:27

In our case, we have realized that are certain things where AI is actually acceptable for content creation, which is rather, in my opinion, very short form stuff that is created based on an existing longer piece. So, for example, creating social media copies or media SEO descriptions, this type of thing. If you already have like an existing long form article, you can get pretty good basic suggestion that you can then use to kind of review and enhance and refine. So that helps you definitely to save time. But at least, for example in the other case, for right now we also see that if you wanna create some content that is about an eShop because something that's actually new, where there is no data points or existing content to reference for your AI, then it just like goes into this hallucination mode with like random results. So there's gonna be certain type of content where you still want to absolutely make sure that human approach is included there as much as possible, but then maybe over time it's gonna be better for kind of like shorter content as well. That's maybe and I'm thinking again if it's something very basic, like I don't know if you do like a lifestyle magazine and you wanna write about the top five beaches in Barcelona, maybe you don't necessarily need like a human to write that, maybe you just have an AI, do like first draft and then you revise it. But again, I don't think that's where the quality comes into play. That's more of like a wider net in terms of strategy and, if I tied back to SEO, which in the end I think we do content traditionally from like the inbound marketing side. So the idea is to not just get traffic to your website but get like relevant leads out of the traffic.

Clemens Rychlik: 49:04

I think I see a change here in terms of the general strategy, because before that it has been very much about. The phrase was always that you kind of like becoming like a publishing house almost. You wanna publish a lot of content consistently and cast like a very wide net to go have this like long-term key moves that you can optimize for, and that has worked. I think this is gonna change now, because I realized that the important thing to keep in mind is, like AI doesn't just exist for you, it's gonna exist for everybody around you too. So if everybody uses AI to create content at scale, probably most of the content is gonna sound exactly the same. So who is gonna be number one on Google? If all things are equal, the differential factor is gonna be most likely the domain authority and the offer authority. If you're like a smaller company that isn't very strong in those two points, then yeah, you can create a lot of content, but it's gonna consistently rank in like very insignificant amount of ranking pages, like at the very bottom. So it's kind of pretty, you can do more content, but it's gonna be useless in terms of like end results. So I think that strategy will change for smaller companies. For larger companies. Maybe that's actually where they can really use that to drive more traffic at scale right now. And I think for the smaller ones and something that we also look at right now is there's gonna be more focus, I think, in a different mindset, a mindset that you are not a publishing house, that you're more of kind of like a library, like you go in your niche and, instead of doing like a lot of content for generic topics, you go really in depth about the things that you really know very well and you try to really outperform other content.

Clemens Rychlik: 50:39

In that way, you add your unique arguments, your unique views, your expert opinion, ideally also your unique data points that you collect yourself and your experience. And that's actually funny because that goes back to actually what Google wants. Like Google wants you to follow kind of what we say like the eat factors right, so you have like expertise, authority and this type of things. So it always brings me back that like SEO, ultimately, I think you can't cheat the system, like you mentioned before, that like black haptax, white haptax in the past that maybe worked for like a year or two and after two years, google launches a new algorithm that now punishes you for something that was like a best practice before that right, which is good. So I think the sustainable SEO, which is kind of the term that I try to promote, the sustainable SEO is to just like really understand what Google wants, what the user wants, and just follow this type of principles Like follow these, eat factors, follow focusing on value, creating something that actually helps the user, and I think that way you're gonna differentiate. So this is something that we look at. So I think there's gonna be more of that. This is kind of where we can add the most value.

Clemens Rychlik: 51:46

And then, aside from that, just again being open to this AI solutions and seeing kind of how can we use our expertise as well SEO, inbound marketers or content writers and use our knowledge of what we see with our experiments with AI to kind of like bridge the gap, because I think one opportunity that we all have in our specific function is to become also kind of like master Yuda. A lot of people right now they know AI is out there, it's very exciting, but they also completely lost on how to best use it literally in the day to day in the best possible way. So they're looking out for those people who can give them some guidelines like how, even in content writing, if you wanna internalize it more of the content production and use AI for that, you want somebody who can tell you how do you do it in the best possible way, and we have experienced with that because we have been working with different partners together. So, for example, in the content side, it would be maybe creates. Make sure you have like content brand messaging playbook that really defines who is your buyer personas, what is your style, what are the main points that you want to bring across your content, because wherever you assign it to a human or a machine, they will probably need the same input to create a good work. Then you want to make sure you provide more context. You provide more context on style or certain phrases you want it to use. So there's got to be so much in this type of field, which I think is a great opportunity to be this master Yota person for people in your space to consult them on one side, but maybe there's also going to be an element where you maybe roll out training workshops for companies, where you can help them maybe code better with AI and humans and bridge that gap.

Clemens Rychlik: 53:26

So I think, a lot of different ways, for right now it's a theory for us. It's something we want to experiment with a completely new brand in the new year. So we'll see how that goes. But I think it's important that we all keep an open mind send, because everything's changing so fast. I think if you just keep doing what you do, it's going to be a question of time until you're going to run behind. There's actually a really good book, a very simple book, that only has one main message is it's called who Moves my Cheese. Like one of those best sellers, we do it really short, but it really encapsulates the idea that if you just keep doing what you do, it's going to become like the end of yourself. So sometimes you have to take a bit of a risk, experiment new stuff and see how that works, because the outcome is probably still going to be better than just staying put and not doing anything.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 54:11

Which is actually a good point, because I'm seeing this as a parallelism of no code. So, almost like about seven years ago, we have the rise of no code and that was going to destroy all programmers, all programming languages and whatnot. And a lot of companies went cheap with no code and they said like, oh, I can cut cars and like now, a project that I would have invested 150 grand in it, I can build it for 30. Good Reality came to bite them back in the ass, right, and so all of these no code projects, kind of like, disappeared off the market and eventually they moved back to code. Why? Because they don't view cut corners. If you use shortcuts and the technology is not really proven, it will most likely not replace the entire landscape. It will become, it might become, a niche, and no code, granted, is a great technology for certain specific type of projects. It has become a niche, but it hasn't become the generalist, and I'm thinking that here we'll see the same A lot of companies just replacing the marketers, the marketing departments of their companies you know, we've seen a lot of layoffs in these departments, unfortunately or sacking their SEO agencies and whatnot, because, oh, I'm going to do it myself internally with chat and team whatnot. Guess what? In one year from now, this will be, you know, declassified by Google and the ranked and whatnot. It will be penalized and they will come back to you to bourbon or to whatever other agency saying oh, I need your services because I've got a mess and I ruined my reputation with SEO and now I don't rank on Google and this and that, so you will be called back. Same for coding. I'm seeing that maybe there will be like a gap of one to a year's time in which people are going to go cheap because they can do it themselves. They will create absolute rubbish and they will come back to us, to the specialist companies at the boutique ones, in one to a year's time asking for help. So maybe it's just how do we get, how do we bridge this gap right? So how do we survive for one year and then go back to actually showing the expertise that these people will need?

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 56:16

Before we wrap it up, there's a signature question of this podcast and I know we were finishing with a high note of these predictions of, of AI. Let's just tone it down, man, like now. It's kind of like the most difficult question of the podcast, but it provides the funniest answers. Which is what has been your biggest and most expensive fuckup? And if you can't quantify it with money, it has to be related to your realm. And don't give me crap like I hired the wrong people because everybody tries to give me that one. That one doesn't count. It's something that you have squander your money on, like you know, a runk marketing campaign, something that that you are like oh, I lost 100 grand on this.

Clemens Rychlik: 56:57

Yeah, for me, I mean, it's easy to say. I think, if we realistic everybody makes a lot of screws up over the life it's important that you don't do it twice. That's why, at least, I always pre-drip the team. You know, it's fine if you do a mistake, but at least make sure you don't do it again. For me, obviously I think we mentioned harming I think that's the same one for everybody.

Clemens Rychlik: 57:12

If you're not an accrued show or trained on that, it's easy to make mistakes there. For me, it's probably on the SEO side is something, because I came kind of like from a finance side business degree. Then I kind of did like consulting with a bit of sales, and then when I first did my bridge to, let's say, the inbound marketing side, one of the biggest mistakes I made was like getting very lost and it's like a typical marketing mistake getting lost in this kind of vanity metrics where you do like keyword research, you do all the strategy, but you optimize for traffic and then you run it for a few months and you say, oh great, like we have this much more traffic, but how much more customers do we have? Like very insignificant amount, you know. And I think this was like one of the biggest realization, so I'm happy that I did it very early on because it helped us retain all of the clients that came afterwards.

Clemens Rychlik: 58:00

But this is like, just like a really, really, really big one, you know, because you can easily content production is expensive, seo work is expensive. So if you optimize for the wrong metrics like just like website traffic, unless that happens for whatever reason, to be really the one thing that customer cares about, that's like a really, really, really bad mistake Because like, yeah, you get traffic but you don't get what you care about. Like, ultimately, people want to get like leads and sales things that then, you know, end up paying for whatever they invest in you and their own team.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 58:28

And you quantify it in money. How much money was like spent there, or like on protection, sale losses, or I don't know there any way to quantify it. Not that we're ranking, but it just gives people some dimension.

Clemens Rychlik: 58:42

I mean I'm sure it costs like several thousands. Yeah, still in the four digits. I think I was happy we had like this regular client meeting so we could identify this earlier and then, first of all, keep the client, which is like, I think, a miracle. But I think they understood our transparency and trust on that and we were able to come and do the switch to then actually optimize for what mattered because we did it up it run for like three months or so but yeah, that was really really like a big, big mistake and happy we detected it early and I learned from it and I saw it early thanks to customers, thanks to our management and stuff. Because if you keep doing that, I mean imagine that you keep optimizing this for traffic for like more than a year.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 59:20

Awesome man 30 seconds for you to say how can we help you back, like you've helped us immensely with this podcast episode. How can we help you and your company back?

Clemens Rychlik: 59:29

I mean for us, just anybody who even has questions or doubts of where the content side and SEO side is going.

Clemens Rychlik: 59:37

I'm just always looking forward to speak with people in industry, basically to learn best practices, share what we see, share what they see, come and see what they may need. Like I say, I'm not a sales person. I hate sales. So, yeah, if a sales comes out of it, great, but it's not the main reason I want to speak with you. But just yeah, if you want to grow up like an e-coffee or in person in Barcelona, it would be fun to talk marketing, ai, talk more on the things that we had here in the podcast in more detail, because it is very exciting, if not, that we have, of course, barcelona. So I'm always happy to talk about startups, tech here and beyond, and especially my pet project with Barcelona Fintech, with our team there. If anybody's particularly interested in the fintech scene here in Barcelona need any help, any questions, definitely happy to talk and see what we can do. It's a nonprofit so again, there's like no monetary reasoning behind it. It's literally just to help companies here be successful in a fintech space.

Àlex Rodríguez Bacardit: 1:00:27

Awesome. And, just to wrap it up, my gratitude to you and your team for the loving and support that you've been giving us to our community at Mardspace in Starcraft in Barcelona over the years. So I wanted to make it even more public. So kudos to you and your great job. Thank you for being here.

Clemens Rychlik: 1:00:42

Thank you. We appreciate all that you do Makes our lives definitely much easier at Barcelona, and I think we need more companies like Mardspace, like Startup Grind, like you know Barcelona, to help our ecosystem, you know, thrive. So much great stuff. I just need to, all you know, put it out there on the map.